The Mormon Dilemma (6 views) Subscribe   
  From:  David (DavidABrown)    2/2/2002 4:42 pm  
To:  ALL   (1 of 26)  
 
  308.1  
 
Hi Maggie,

 

You have really hit on the inner core of this Mormon dilemma.

 

Why do people stay in Mormonism even though it is a Proven scam? As you mentioned that all of their archeology and their version of history has been repeatedly proven to be a hoax by scholars, archeologist, and scientist.

 

When I first started to study the Mormon Beliefs and Practices I was introduced to a couple of Excellent films made by some fairly high ranking Mormons that have left Mormonism and renounced them as a Cult. The films are the  the god makers films named so because the Mormons believe that they are making themselves into gods.

 

The most fascinating part about the video is all of this footage about their leader and their prophets and their elders as they would gather together for a religious meeting for several days at some hotel or business center and all it is, is a bunch of time with prostitutes female/male lots of alcohol, gambling and drugs it is a big party just like the freemasons or some other worldly bunch would have.

 

I kept thinking that if this isnt enough evidence to convince anyone and everyone to leave that Mormon mess then what would they need? It turns out that the Mormons themselves know full well about the behavior of their leaders and the Mormon people themselves actually endorse it. Because at the core Mormonism is sex, and thinking you are a god and doing whatever you want to do as your own god, so of course they dont condemn it they cant wait to get their chance to jump into it.

 

We Christians often actually believe the Mormon propaganda that they are a nice moral family bunch but nothing could be further from the truth and the average Mormon knows it, and now it is time for the average Christian to know it as well.

 

I am just amazed at how spiritual this battle really is, Satan has the Mormons so sold out to their own greed and physical desires that it actually takes a real Spiritual Freeing Encounter for them to renounce Mormonism and to then live in Christianity. Fortunately there are those who are freed from the bondage of Mormonism and go on to live in the freedom of Jesus.

 

To everyone lets keep praying for the Mormons. Praying that Satan and his lies will be kept far away from these people and that the light and the Love of the True Gospel of Jesus will shine into the dark areas to reveal the Love and Freedom in Christ Jesus. It is a battle, a spiritual battle, not a battle of common sense and rationality but by praying in the Spirit I know that many Mormons can be freed from this cult.

 

God Bless You,

David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    2/2/2002 5:32 pm  
To:  ALL   (2 of 26)  
 
  308.2 in reply to 308.1  
 
Here are some links to the Mormon (LDS) materials mentioned in the above post.

 

Saints Alive Home Page Ex-Mormons

 

Saints Alive Excellent On-Line Audio Library

 

God Makers On-Line Video Clip

 

Jeremiah Films Place to Look at and Order Cult Videos

 

 

Enjoy, these web sites are Keeping us Informed to keep us clear of the Cults!!

 

God Bless You!

David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    2/5/2002 3:13 pm  
To:  MKTG_DUDE unread  (3 of 26)  
 
  308.3 in reply to 308.2  
 
To mkt_dude:

 

Im just curious, you chose to file a (TOS) terms of service complaint with Delphi about this topic and you stated that your main reason for filling it is that it is racist as a topic to discuss a different religion, just as racists as referring to skin color as to refer to religious differences. Which by the way racism is a special category of protection under the law because people cannot have any influence or change their birth characteristics. But you can change your religious affiliation to a degree. Meaning Mormonism is a Cult so you can leave the Mormon Cult and join another Cult i.e. you could become a Jehovahs Witness, next week. Christianity is different because Christianity is not a philosophy Christianity is an Actually Spiritual Born Again change in a person. So Christianity is for real but Mormonism is just a lifestyle and next week you can live another lifestyle.

 

Back to my point, I gather that since Cmfly2001 posted 2 TOS violations with Delphi both with similar content that you are actually cmfly2001 and that you are continuing to visit and continuing to disagree.

 

My question to you is that do you have any clue of the absolute racist and bigoted foundation of the Mormon LDS church?

 

Obviously you do not even have the slightest amount of knowledge of what the LDS church stands for or you would be questioning them about their practices.

 

So my invitation to you is to pubically post your objections where they can be discussed and not to just avoid the facts by complaining to Delphi!

 

All the Best to you!!
David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum



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Edited 2/5/2002 6:23:18 PM ET by David  
  
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  From:  Bob Blaylock (o_cByBoabll)   2/8/2002 10:08 am  
To:  ALL   (4 of 26)  
 
  308.4 in reply to 308.1  
 
  As usual, David's characterizations of the doctrines, teachings, practices, and history of the Mormon church are grotesquely inaccurate.

  One really must wonder, at this point, what David's true motives and intentions are.  It would be quite understandable, of course, for David to disagree with the Mormon church on a number of doctrinal points, and to criticize it on that basis.  But to make up lies about the Mormon church, and to go to such great lengths as he does to see that these lies are heard, is quite another.  It's particularly curious the way in which David tries to tie Mormonism into other unrelated practices which he finds abhorrent, as he does in this posting, without any basis whatsoever for the connection he tries to make.

  It's been said, of those who are most fanatically hateful toward homosexuals, that such hatred is often a sign of repressed homosexual tendencies.  I wonder what is at the root of David's deep, malicious hatred of Mormonism, which drives him to engage in such unchristian behavior in order to attack and slander it.

  if you really want to know what Mormonism teaches, and what Mormons believe, ask a genuine Mormon.  Any of us will gladly explain our beliefs, to the best of our ability. 



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Edited 2/8/02 6:01:48 PM ET by Bob Blaylock  
  
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  From:  karen (karen10051)   2/8/2002 10:21 am  
To:  Bob Blaylock (o_cByBoabll)   (5 of 26)  
 
  308.5 in reply to 308.4  
 
I felt really offended by that post too Bob...it was actually kind of bizarre.


  
  
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  From:  Bob Blaylock (o_cByBoabll)   2/8/2002 11:02 am  
To:  karen (karen10051)   (6 of 26)  
 
  308.6 in reply to 308.5  
 
  I think the point has been reached, now, that whenever David opens his mouth^H^H^H^H^Hkeyboard on most subjects  but especially on the subject of Mormonism  that it is fairly clear to most readers that he is telling them a lot more about himself and his character than he is about the topic he is discussing.  Matthew 7:1620 seems relevant here:
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
  I think that anyone who sincerely examines Mormonism  even if they ultimately disagree with it on theological points  will see that it brings forth good fruit.  I would gladly have Mormonism known by its fruits.  I think that anyone who reads this forum will see that David brings forth a rather different kind of fruit. 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    2/8/2002 4:09 pm  
To:  Bob Blaylock (o_cByBoabll)   (7 of 26)  
 
  308.7 in reply to 308.6  
 
I gather that both you and Karen are commenting about a film that neither of you have viewed.

 

Im talking about the The God Makers films which have the footage of Mormon (LDS) Leadership participating in drugs, gambling & sexual conduct and several Interviews with both the people that were involved and the staffs of these facilities who also witnessed the conduct.

 

Since both of you are so concerned about the truth and accurate posting, how about reserving your comments and personal accusations until you have actually viewed the material that is referenced.

 

Somehow everyone is supposed to have the highest regard for you two and your opinions yet you both base your opinions not on truth but on your biased opinions, something that I think is totally wrong and false to do.

 

And yes I gladly put forth a different kind of fruit than the Mormon (LDS) does.

 

David

 



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum



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Edited 2/8/2002 7:11:56 PM ET by David  
  
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  From:  StevenJn316   2/8/2002 4:12 pm  
To:  Bob Blaylock (o_cByBoabll)   (8 of 26)  
 
  308.8 in reply to 308.4  
 
if you really want to know what Mormonism teaches, and what Mormons believe, ask a genuine Mormon. Any of us will gladly explain our beliefs, to the best of our ability. 
____________________________________________________________________ 
Bob, does not your phrase 'genuine Mormon' have something to it. I mean, there are many people who identify themselves with Christianity, Islam, Mormonism etc....who disagree with others who also identify with the same faith. And thus, how often do we see people in debate say "he is not a REAL Christian, Muslim etc." 

So rather than ask a 'genuine' Mormon (and how does one make that determination?) is not the proper thing rather to read the books that Mormonism holds sacred. I mean, certainly a "genuine" Mormon would believe everything written in their books, like a genuine Christian would the Bible or a genuine Muslim the Quran. And any professing Mormon who claimed to believe something rebutted by their books (or not believe something taught by their books) would not in fact be a 'genuine' Mormon. 

I assure you I would NEVER EVER direct a person inquiring into Christianity to talk to any other person. Who knows who they may meet, and even MY advice is meaningless if not backed up by Scripture. I would tell them to read the New Testament...and by the way ONLY the New Testament. I would not give them other books to explain the New Testament. But that is if one was looking into Christianity. 

Can not then we read the King James Bible, The Pearl of Great Price, Doctrines and Covenants and The Book of Mormon and reach our own conclusions about what Mormonism really teaches. 

And just as the New Testament does not contradict itself within its pages, then these four books of Mormonism should not contradict themselves. 

Would you agree?
 
  
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  From:  karen (karen10051)   2/8/2002 4:51 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (9 of 26)  
 
  308.9 in reply to 308.7  
 
I am not commenting on any film whatsoever...i havent the slightest idea what you are talking about. 
I simply asked for the lies and personal attacks to stop David...how come that is such a terrible thing? 

For the last time: I am NOT a Mormon, I am NOT defending the Mormons, and i dont even really CARE about the Mormons. I am just tired of the lies about ME personally. 

karen



  
  
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  From:  Bob Blaylock (o_cByBoabll)   2/8/2002 5:53 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (10 of 26)  
 
  308.10 in reply to 308.7  
 
David (DAVIDABROWN) wrote"
I gather that both you and Karen are commenting about a film that neither of you have viewed.
  I can't speak for Karen, but I, acually, was commenting about you and your personal conduct, especially with regard to the obsession you've developed in exposing Mormonism, to the degree that, while professing to be a Christian, you will engage in the vilest, most dishonest, and most unChristian behavior in pursuit of this purpose.  By your fruits you will be known; and in your case, your fruits are hatred, deceitfullness, arrogance, and bigotry.  This should be obvious, by now, to almost anyone reading this forum.

  That said, however



Im talking about the The God Makers films which have the footage of Mormon (LDS) Leadership participating in drugs, gambling & sexual conduct and several Interviews with both the people that were involved and the staffs of these facilities who also witnessed the conduct.

Since both of you are so concerned about the truth and accurate posting, how about reserving your comments and personal accusations until you have actually viewed the material that is referenced.
  I have seen The Godmakers and I have seen The Godmakers II.  Having firsthand experience and knowledge as a member of the Mormon religion, I can state, abolutely, and truthfully, this much:  Ed Decker, claims to have been a Mormon.  He claims that his films, as well as his book by the same name, are reflective of what he learned and was taught as a Mormon.  Ed Decker is a liar, plain and simple.  Mormonism does not, and never has, taught the things he says it teaches, nor practiced what he has said it practices.

  Ed Decker was a Mormon, but he was excommunicated.  The church doesn't generally make public matters of its disciplinary procedures, so we will never know for certain the exact reason for the excommunication.  The court records, from his divorce of about the same time, however, are public records, and they indicate a pattern of persistent, repeated adultery, spousal abuse, and neglect; which the church would surely consider to be a valid basis for excommunication.  It is most likely that Decker, not being willing to take responsibility for the consequneces of his own behavior, blames the church for destroying his marriage, and for the other consequences which he has endured, and has set out to destroy it.  The Godmakers is a product of this, and nothing more.

  I do not remember seeing, in either film, the depictions you mention of drugs, gambling & sexual conduct, and I am skeptical that they exist.  Depending on who you define as Mormon (LDS) Leadership, I suppose it's possible that out of the tens of thousands of Bishops, Stake Presidents, and related leaders, there probably are a handful who have engaged in such behavior (even our leaders are not perfect), and maybe even a few who were stupid enough to allow themselves to be filmed doing so.  But given what is well-known about Decker's character, I think it much more likely, if such footage exists, that it is faked, using actors; than that Decker or anyone associated therewith was ever able to get hold of any actual footage of such behavior. 
  
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  From:  Bob Blaylock (o_cByBoabll)   2/8/2002 6:17 pm  
To:  StevenJn316   (11 of 26)  
 
  308.11 in reply to 308.8  
 
STEVENJN316 wrote:
Bob, does not your phrase 'genuine Mormon' have something to it. I mean, there are many people who identify themselves with Christianity, Islam, Mormonism etc....who disagree with others who also identify with the same faith. And thus, how often do we see people in debate say "he is not a REAL Christian, Muslim etc."

So rather than ask a 'genuine' Mormon (and how does one make that determination?) is not the proper thing rather to read the books that Mormonism holds sacred. I mean, certainly a "genuine" Mormon would believe everything written in their books, like a genuine Christian would the Bible or a genuine Muslim the Quran. And any professing Mormon who claimed to believe something rebutted by their books (or not believe something taught by their books) would not in fact be a 'genuine' Mormon.

I assure you I would NEVER EVER direct a person inquiring into Christianity to talk to any other person. Who knows who they may meet, and even MY advice is meaningless if not backed up by Scripture. I would tell them to read the New Testament...and by the way ONLY the New Testament. I would not give them other books to explain the New Testament. But that is if one was looking into Christianity.
  There are two questions that could be asked:
What do Mormons believe?
Are Mormon beliefs true?
  In this forum, I am concerned primarily with the first question.  There have been many representations made in this forum concerning what Mormons believe.  The vast majority of these representations have been deceptive, or even outright false.  Mind you, I'm not talking, at this point, about whether our beliefs themselves are true.  I'm talking about whether what it is being claimed that we believe is really what we do believe.  And my answer is that, in most cases, it is not.

  I think that my advice is sound.  Sure, you can read our books, but if you really want to know what someone believes, is there any better way to find out than to ask that person?  If you want to know what Mormons believe, is there any better way to find out than to ask a Mormon?

  Before you can even begin to consider whether our beliefs are true, you need to be clear on what our beliefs really are.  David doesn't want you to get this far.  One must wonder why.



Can not then we read the King James Bible, The Pearl of Great Price, Doctrines and Covenants and The Book of Mormon and reach our own conclusions about what Mormonism really teaches.

And just as the New Testament does not contradict itself within its pages, then these four books of Mormonism should not contradict themselves.
  Hold our Standard Works (which consist of The Holy Bible, The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price) to the same standards to which you hold the Bible itself, as far as internal consistency, and our whole body of scripture will stand up just as well.  
  
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  From:  Bob Blaylock (o_cByBoabll)   2/8/2002 6:33 pm  
To:  Bob Blaylock (o_cByBoabll)   (12 of 26)  
 
  308.12 in reply to 308.10  
 
I wrote, earlier: 
It is most likely that Decker, not being willing to take responsibility for the consequneces of his own behavior, blames the church for destroying his marriage, and for the other consequences which he has endured, and has set out to destroy it. The Godmakers is a product of this, and nothing more.
BTW, The Godmakers may, on the whole be having a somewhat different effect that Decker intended. My wife, for an example, specifically mentions The Godmakers as one of the things that led her to the Mormon church. She had read the book, on the advice of a pastor, and initially she believed much of what she had read. But it made her curious, and when she had occasion to speak to an acquaintance who was a Mormon concerning some of what she had read, and when she thus learned that most of what she had read was not true, she became even more curious. This all happened about the time she and I first began corresponding, and well before we actually met in person. At the time, I was a very inactive Mormon, identifying more as an agnostic, I think. My main contribution to her curiousity was to tell her not to believe everything she hears and reads about Mormonism.

She and I had been exhcanging emails over a fairly unreliable system. I received one email from her in which she said she could never be a Mormon. The very next email I received from her said she was getting baptized in a few days. Several days later, a whole bunch of emails arrived which had originally been sent between those two, which described much of what she was learning, and which would have made the I'm getting baptized message a lot less startling.

There's a really neat story about me and my wife to be found by following . 

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Edited 2/8/2002 11:02:08 PM ET by David  
  
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  From:  StevenJn316   2/8/2002 8:15 pm  
To:  Bob Blaylock (o_cByBoabll) unread  (13 of 26)  
 
  308.13 in reply to 308.11  
 
I think that my advice is sound. Sure, you can read our books, but if you really want to know what someone believes, is there any better way to find out than to ask that person? If you want to know what Mormons believe, is there any better way to find out than to ask a Mormon? 
_____________________________________________________________________ 
If I want to know what someone believes, then by all means we should ask them..however, if that person is making a representation of what a group believes doctrinally, then I need an objective standard. 
Example: If I only have a discussion with Osama Bin Laden, will I get a proper picture of what Muslims believe? Well, it will sure be a different one than if I have a discussion with most American Muslims. So what is my standard? 

I went to a small high school and there were 2 Mormons in my class. One did not party or even drink alcohol etc, while the other was at all the beer parties, smoked, drank cokes etc. all the time. I was not a Christian then, and I sure did not know anything about Mormonism except by these two witnesses' lifestyles. Once I told the partying friend he must not be a genuine Mormon and he was FURIOUS at me. I was not seeking to insult him, but I was told by my other Mormon friend that Mormon did not drink, smoke etc. Pretty simple conclusion on my part. 

You I hope know enough history to know that what most considered Christianity before the Reformation was in large part much evil. The atheists point to this era as "Christian history", and I think I am on solid ground in rebuking that idea because much of the practice was in contradiction to the clear teaching of the New Testament. In fact, it was when the Bible began to be circulated among the common people due to the printing press and translation efforts of many that Rome lost much of her grip on the masses. In fact, she had to resort to violence (especially in the colonies of South America and elsewhere) to try to hold onto the minds of the people - much like Muslims in the Middle East seek to do by inflicting prison and death upon any who would challenge the Islamic religion. 

So I return to my original comment - if one wants to know what Mormons believe, one must read Joseph Smith's writings. He is your prophet and the founder of your religion. Anyone professing to claim what Mormons believe that speaks something in contradiction to the writings of Joseph Smith is NOT a proper representation of Mormonism. 

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    2/8/2002 8:35 pm  
To:  Bob Blaylock (o_cByBoabll) unread  (14 of 26)  
 
  308.14 in reply to 308.12  
 
Bob,

 

You actually have No credibility on this forum.

 

You have been banned Numerous times I would guess in excess of 15 times yet you continually come here Never once mentioning anything that would state just what actually Mormons (LDS) believe but always insulting and always telling everyone that they are wrong about Mormonism and that Mormonism isnt what even ex-Mormons claim it to be.

 

You have always been welcome to state what your Mormon beliefs are yet time and time again you resort to personal attacks and now you have to insult Ed Decker a man who has left the Mormon (LDS) for true Christianity.

 

In short it seems that you are constantly lying just to cover the many sins of your cult it appears that you will say anything and do anything no matter how ridiculous just to spackle the rotten image of the hideous Mormon cult.

 

Because you have No credibility I removed the link in your post it was mostly a silly Mormon Propaganda tool anyhow about how a fortune cookie told you to get married. Besides gaining direction from a fortune cookie is not exactly true Christianity and not once did you mention or glorify Jesus in your story so it is of no Godly Christian value.

 

If it wasnt for the pure Comic value of you Desperate postings I would keep you continuously banned but I enjoy your desperate attempts at Mormon Damage Control, especially your latest that watching the films the god makers actually has led people to become Mormons. Either you are totally desperate and think that others are complete idiots or the Mormon Cult is missing its greatest outreach tool. Since I dont see the Mormon (LDS) cult using the god makers as an outreach tool I have to believe that you think people are so pathetic that they will believe any dribble, but then again thats how you ended up in a cult you had to believe someones dribble so you expect others to believe yours.

 

On your next post please exclude all of the slander and the propaganda and just explain the merits of Mormonism.

 

David 



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum



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Edited 2/8/2002 11:36:33 PM ET by David  
  
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  From:  Jim (pentitent)    2/10/2002 8:49 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (15 of 26)  
 
  308.15 in reply to 308.14  
 
Plus Mr. Steven has never answered the allegations documented against the church with more than "That's a lie". This are all historical factual happenings. If you can't believe what is truth in the secular world, then there's not much hope for you believing what encompasses God's World. You appear to be the kind that if someone says something black is black; you will disagree. 
2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 

Think about it my friend!

May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
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  From:  StevenJn316   2/11/2002 2:06 pm  
To:  Jim (pentitent)    (16 of 26)  
 
  308.16 in reply to 308.15  
 
Plus Mr. Steven has never answered the allegations documented against the church with more than "That's a lie". This are all historical factual happenings 
____________________________________________________________________ 
How did I get dragged into this? I think you meant Blaylock and not me Pentitent.  
  
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  From:  Jim (pentitent)    2/12/2002 3:01 pm  
To:  StevenJn316   (17 of 26)  
 
  308.17 in reply to 308.16  
 
Sorry, my brother! I mistook something you quoted as something you wrote. I extend my humble apology!
May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
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  From:  StevenJn316   2/12/2002 3:58 pm  
To:  Jim (pentitent)    (18 of 26)  
 
  308.18 in reply to 308.17  
 
No problem at all....I do a simple paste job when I quote and sometimes it looks like my own writing, compared to those who quote using different fonts etc. 
Again, don't give it a second thought.
 
  
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  From:  Jim (pentitent)    2/12/2002 6:33 pm  
To:  StevenJn316 unread  (19 of 26)  
 
  308.19 in reply to 308.18  
 
Don't give what a second thought? 
Sorry, I couldn't resist! 


May God bless and keep you, my brothers and sisters! 

 
  
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From:  David (DavidABrown)    2/21/2002 5:14 pm  
To:  ALL    
 
    
 
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4.  "Mormonism's Temple of Doom" -- The unholy mixture of Magick arts into the ceremonies of Mormonism and Freemasonry expose their Satanic roots. Mystical and Magickal routes are always dead end. People need to heed the warnings of the Apostle Paul that Satan can masquerade as an "Angel of Light"? [2 Cor 11:15] Those people who seek power or knowledge through forbidden channels ultimately discover they are unable to control the forces they unleash. All Adepts who employ Ceremonial Magick do so with the hope of gaining supernatural power, but soon discover they cannot control the "Fiery Spirits" of Satan. The systems of Mormonism, Magick, and Masonry claim to lead men to genuine worship of God; however, rather than being God's houses of worship, they are Temples of Doom! This book does the best job yet tying together Mormonism, Satanism, and Freemasonry, proving they are the same system!

With Mormonism being in the Daily News right now because of the Olympics, this book provides timely information, indeed. http://cuttingedge.org/detail.cfm?ID=183

5.  "Whited Sepulchers:  Hidden Language of the Mormon Temple" -- Mormon Temples and Ward Meeting Houses are blossoming all over the world. Temples, bright and dazzling, with "futuristic" needle-like spires, herald the "restored gospel" of Mormonism as revealed to founder Joseph Smith by an "Angel of Light"! Are these temples truly "Houses of the Lord" as the LDS Church proclaims? In "Mormonism's Temple of Doom", former Witch Bill Schnoebelen documents the tight connection between the LDS temple ceremony, Freemasonry, and Witchcraft. That book described the temple ceremony and spoke of the occult architecture of the Salt Lake Temple. This book expands on the subject, boldly displaying the blatant Satanic symbols all over the temple and explaining their meaning. Schnoebelen and his co-author, James Spencer, maintain that these Mormon temples are nothing more than "White Sepulchers". http://cuttingedge.org/detail.cfm?ID=184

6.  "Lucifer Dethroned"  -- Bill's extraordinary testimony of his deliverance from the darkness of Witchcraft into the glorious light of Jesus Christ! Also teaches elementary Spiritual Warfare, and how to witness to those people still practicing Witchcraft and other forms of Satanism. Defending your family is of paramount concern in this book. 
Truly, you will understand the spiritual truth that, for all his mighty power, Lucifer is a defeated foe! 
http://cuttingedge.org/detail.cfm?ID=179

7.  "Video -- Masonry:  The Light Behind Masonry" -- How can a true Born Again Christian, who has accepted Jesus Christ as his Savior -- the Light of the World as the Bible calls him -- go into a Masonic initiation ritual  and declare that he is in darkness and searching for light?  Yet, this is exactly what a person does during the first three rituals of Masonry.  Bill thoroughly explores the true spiritual "light" behind Masonry.  You will be shocked! 
http://cuttingedge.org/detail.cfm?ID=182

II.  Dr. Dennis Cuddy, Ph.D. -- Historian and political analyst par excellance, has authored or edited fifteen books and booklets and has served as a senior associate with the U.S. Department of Justice.  Dr. Cuddy has appeared as the Conservative voice on issues on ABC-Radio in New York City, "USA Today", and CBS "Nightwatch".  Dr. Cuddy is considered an expert on the coming New World Order, and of the forces bringing it to fruition.

Dr. Cuddy's books on Cutting Edge Bookstore:

1.  "Now Is The Dawning Of The New Age, New World Order" -- If you ever wanted a thorough chronology -- a succinct timeline -- of the events and historic characters of the encroaching New World Order, this is the book for you. Since most people have not been well trained in real history, this book will enable you to put key events and the leaders who created them, into proper historic perspective. You will be shocked as to how very long this New World Order program has been gradually unfolding. Meticulously documented book. 
http://cuttingedge.org/detail.cfm?ID=186

2.  "Secret Records Revealed:  Secret Links Previously Hidden" -- In 1890, Cecil Rhodes stated that he would start a movement that would, in 100 years, bring in a world government in which there would be no war and only one language. One hundred years later, in 1990, President Bush Senior announced the arrival of the New World Order. Beginning early this century, Rhodes Scholars have been involved with the CFR, the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund, international banking, the U.S. Congress, and presidential administrations since Woodrow Wilson. For example, President Clinton - a Rhodes Scholar -- appointed at least 22 Rhodes Scholars to high positions in his administration. This book reveals the source of the conspiracy dedicated to erasing nationalism, and replacing it with a world government. http://cuttingedge.org/detail.cfm?ID=185

3.  "The Globalists:  The Power Elite Exposed" -- Published in July, 2001, two months before the 9/11 attacks, Dr. Cuddy warned, on p. 303: "At the national level, this conditioning of the public might be brought about via certain crises, such as a terrorist attack, or high rate of crime. For the sake of peace and security, people may be willing to give up certain of their freedoms ..." ABCNews.com stated, on 9/11, "Americans divide almost evenly on whether the United States did all it could to prevent these attacks ... Nonetheless, two-thirds ... say they would sacrifice some personal liberties in support of anti-terrorism efforts." If Dr. Cuddy's book, "Secret Records Revealed" could be called, "Untaught History 101", then this book could be called, "Untaught History 102". Listen to a New Age author explain the plan to produce the global government of Antihrist: "As far back as 1917, secret societies 
were planning an artificial threat to bring humanity together into a global government they call the New World Order". Dr. Cuddy explains how this 1917 goal was planned and by whom the plan was executed.  
http://cuttingedge.org/detail.cfm?ID=187

III.  Pastor Michael Bunker -- Author of the four videos on the upcoming "Mark of the Beast" technology.

"A Perilous Time: True Christianity in the Crosshairs" -- Pastor Bunker addresses a subject of which Cutting Edge has been warning for 12 years now -- that the Fundamental Christian is THE REAL target of the Illuminati.  Further, we shall be persecuted by those people who call themselves Christian, but are not!  This book writes confrontationally, for we are living in times demanding that the true Remnant of Jesus Christ shout loudly, longly, and clearly the truth of the Gospel and of the glorious fulfillment of prophecy that heralds the soon coming of our 
Lord.

IV.  Tim Cohen -- Messianic Jew, and journalist.

"Antichrist and A Cup of Tea" --

I was highly skeptical that anyone could know the precise identity of Antichrist before he arose on the world scene. Thus, it was with great doubt that I began reading this well-documented 443 page book. However, by the time I was two-thirds of the way through the book, I was convinced that Antichrist would come from the British Monarchy, from the House of Windsor. Tim Cohen, a Messianic Jew, provides overwhelming evidence, including heavy Antichrist symbolism, that proves his point beyond reasonable doubt. Once you read this book, you will be checking 
out the travel itineraries of key world leaders when they travel to and from Washington, D.C.!! NOTE:  Will be instock about March 1.  http://cuttingedge.org/detail.cfm?ID=178

We at Cutting Edge Ministries are very pleased with these new additions to our bookstore.  Many of your questions will be answered by one or more of these books.  Further, you will be more able to witness to your friends, neighbors, and all people within your Sphere of Influence on these key issues of the time in which we are living.

May Jesus Richly Bless You,
David Bay, Director
www.cuttingedge.org
800-451-8211 Phone
508-761-3338 Fax



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
From:  David (DavidABrown)    2/22/2002 9:18 pm  
To:  ALL   (22 of 26)  
 
  308.22 in reply to 308.21  
 
Hi,

 

All of these topics on LDS - Mormonism are designed to Win Mormons over to Jesus. It is indented to reveal the deception of Satan in placing people into the bondage of Mormonism. It is an even Bigger intention to demonstrate the Love of Jesus to each and every Mormon. Jesus loves these people and our goal is not to just discredit Mormonism just because it is so discreditable but because there is more to Life than Mormon lies there is Truth, the Truth of Jesus unhindered Love for them.

 

I hope that these tools will help us all to Present the Love of Jesus to Mormons. After all Mormons are not gods but they are our fellow humans and as humans, sinners, just like we are and sinners in need of the Complete, Love, Forgiveness and Cleansing that can only be found in Jesus and that only Jesus has to offer.

 

In the following post are some more resources for Witnessing about Jesus to Mormons.

 

God Bless You,

David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    2/22/2002 9:25 pm  
To:  ALL   (23 of 26)  
 
  308.23 in reply to 308.22  
 
Source: http://www.watchman.org/ldstools.htm  
  
TOOLS FOR WITNESSING TO MORMONS
Witnessing to friends and family who are Mormons presents a great challenge for Christians. Mormons often recite their testimony, and point to their admirable lifestyle, as proof of the validity of their beliefs. Unfortunately, they are often unaware both of how their beliefs deviate from biblical Christianity, and how LDS doctrine and history has been revised over the years. These resources will help you share the Gospel with Latter-day Saints.

Have you ever wanted to ask your Mormon friend questions that would cause them to seriously examine their faith? Questions such as; "Do you really believe you can become a God?" and "Are you keeping the whole Law?" The book also includes a dictionary that allows readers to see how Mormon and Christian terminology are different, 192 pgs., Bib., Index. $10.

Tape and Manual Sets
The tape and manual sets on Mormonism are among the most effective methods for witnessing to LDS. Virtually all the pages in the workbooks (except the covers) are full-page photocopies from Mormon sources. They include writings from the Prophets, Apostles, and other General Authorities from books and magazines published by the LDS Church. The tape that accompanies the manual gives complete page-by-page instructions on how to use these photocopies in a witnessing situation.

The Law of Eternal Progression

An introduction to LDS doctrine, it includes a brief history and evidence showing that Mormonism teaches that God was once a man and men can become Gods, Jesus and Satan are "spirit brothers," God married the virgin Mary, Jesus was married, etc. This tool is most useful for new Mormon converts and those thinking of joining. $10.

 Mormonism: How Shaky a Foundation

This tape teaches a step by step approach for Christians to witness to their Mormon friends and loved ones. Based on Deuteronomy 13:18, the documentation guide contains copies from several of Joseph Smith's false prophecies as well as copies documenting Mormon leaders' conflicting and changing views of God. This tape and workbook set is one of our most popular witnessing tools. $10.
 
Witnessing with the Book of Mormon

A page by page photocopy from the original 1830 Book of Mormon with copies of the same passages from recent editions. From the more than 4,000 changes to the text, and anachronisms in the book of Mormon text. Includes helpful advice for sharing this information in a loving way with LDS. $10.

Articles
Watchman Fellowship is one of the leading Christian countercult ministries. Our magazine, The Watchman Expositor, frequently contains articles about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The articles listed below will give you a solid understanding of Mormon history and doctrine.

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Profile

Hinckley Claims LDS Worship Different Christ

Mormonism Overview

Basics of Mormonism: Falling Upward

A Miracle for Mormons - Forgiveness of Sins

Changing the Book of Commandments

False Prophecy in the Doctrine and Covenants

Joseph Smith and the Biblical Test of a Prophet

The Bible: 1,002 - Book of Mormon: Zero

Testing the Book of Mormon by Moroni 10:4



Books
These books provide some of the most comprehensive Christian responses to Mormonism.

Speaking the Truth in Love to Mormons

Cares served as a Christian pastor in Nampa, Idaho, where Mormon influence is great. For more than three years, he developed the specific strategies for reaching Mormons reflected in this book. One of the best aids for sharing with Mormons. Includes 40 page "Dictionary of Mormonese," 299 pgs, Bib., Index. $14.
 
 Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Mormons

Written by a leader in counter-cult apologetics, this book examines basic Mormon teachings about such subjects as God, Jesus and divine revelation. Rhodes' solid research and clear writing makes it easy for the reader to confidently use the Bible in witnessing to Mormons, 413 pgs., Index. 13.
 
 A Response to Stephen E. Robinson's Are Mormons Christians?

This paper is a response to a very popular book by Dr. Robinson, chairman of the Department of Ancient Scriptures at Mormon owned BYU. Robinson claims Mormons are Christian. However, his arguments are built on faulty premises, 21 pgs., Bib. $5.
 
 Questions to Ask Your Mormon Friend

Have you ever wanted to ask your Mormon friend questions that would cause them to seriously examine their faith? Questions such as; "Do you really believe you can become a God?" and "Are you keeping the whole Law?" The book also includes a dictionary that allows readers to see how Mormon and Christian terminology are different, 192 pgs., Bib., Index. $10.


 Copyright 2001 Watchman Fellowship, Inc.. All rights reserved. Address all technical questions and comments to our webmaster.
 




David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    2/23/2002 5:01 pm  
To:  ALL   (24 of 26)  
 
  308.24 in reply to 308.2  
 
As promised here are some Links to continue to Document and Explain the Satanic origins of Mormonism.

 

Note Joseph Smith the Mormons and their prophets, elders and leaders in All of their works and writings are constantly Denying the Deity of Jesus.
 

For instance Jesus said to Drink wine (grape product) as this is the remembrance of Jesus and His new Covenant with us. The Mormons have changed their communion to drinking water instead of a grape product.

 

Jesus also instructed His Church to have Passover Bread as the new Covenant is in Remembrance of Death having Passed us Over and of our now eternal Spiritual Life. The Mormons Likewise have changed this to be a standard bread of Leavened Bread. Biblically Leaven is a representation of sin, that is why the Passover Bread which Jesus said was a representation of Himself is to be without leaven because Jesus is without sin.

 

Jesus instructed His disciples to Baptize (living) people yet now the Mormons baptize the dead.

 

There are literally thousands of ways that the Mormons are denying the Deity of Jesus and it really gets down to the fact that if they do nothing that Jesus said to do and contend that everything that Jesus said to do was wrong and needed to be changed then can it really be said that the Mormons are following Jesus (God)? Of course the answer is No. Mormons do not follow Jesus, since they do not follow Jesus than just who do they follow.

 

Notice that in the photos, on the links, there are several Satanic symbols Prominently displayed on the Mormon LDS Temple and building architectures but yet there is not one representation of Jesus, no cross, no manger, no fish, nothing to refer to Jesus, presumably who they represent. Yet again Satanic symbols and rituals abound in the Mormon cult revealing beyond any shadow of doubt that Mormonism is Satanism.

 

God Bless You,

David



David A. Brown
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    2/23/2002 5:06 pm  
To:  ALL   (25 of 26)  
 
  308.25 in reply to 308.24  
 
Links to Photos of the Numerous Satanic symbols on the Exterior of Mormon Temples and buildings in Salt Lake City and other places.

 

http://www.evensocomelordjesus.com/Mormonism/symbols.html

 

The two following Links are to the Christian Web Site "Sword of the Spirit Apologetics" they document and explain the Satanic Links that cults like the Mormons have and practice with Satan (Lucifer) hence the name "luciferlink."

 

http://www.luciferlink.org/mtemple.htm

 

http://www.luciferlink.org/INDEX2.htm?photos.htm&2

 

God Bless You,

David



David A. Brown
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   From:  David (DavidABrown)    2/23/2002 7:09 pm  
To:  ALL   (26 of 26)  
 
  308.26 in reply to 308.25  
 
This is a really interesting quote that I have been meaning to post for some time.

 

Here is a Quote from Joseph Smith himself declaring Mormonism to be his greatest ideal and Notice that Joseph Smith declares that Mormonism is a collection of worldly ideas.

 

What more proof could anyone need than the founder of Mormonism declaring that his religion is a collection of worldly ideas.

 

We should gather all the good and true principles in the world

and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true Mormons

(Joseph Smith, TPJS, p. 316).

 

Here is another quote from a real Godly man the Apostle Paul.

 -

Galatians 1:11-12

But I (Apostle Paul) certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

God Bless you,

David



David A. Brown
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